Speaker 9 0:00

Welcome to Overcoming Anything, the podcast where we dive deep into stories of resilience, transformation, and growth. I'm your host, Anne Vide, and today we have an incredible guest who will be talking about overcoming Tinder. So joining me today is Katherine Alman. She is a licensed psychotherapist with deep training and traditional psychology. And decades of work in tantra meditation and conscious intimacy. Welcome to the show, Katherine.

Speaker 10 0:28

Thanks Ann. It's really nice to be here.

Speaker 9 0:31

It's a pleasure to have you. So before we dive in, I always love to ask what's one quote or mantra that keeps you going in tough times?

Speaker 10 0:40

This too shall pass. Sorry. I don't have anything more, unique, but that one is so powerful. I learned that in a 12 step program and. No matter what's going on, I just think especially when you're midlife or beyond, you've seen this before, it will pass. And a good time. We'll be following shortly.

Speaker 9 0:59

I love it. Simple, yet powerful and something we can always remember. So let's start at the beginning. What is the most difficult thing you've ever had to overcome, Katherine?

Speaker 10 1:09

I think the most difficult thing I ever had to overcome was. I wasn't really very good at relationships and I really craved a partner, a soulmate, and I, like a lot of your listeners, probably had a difficult childhood, which doesn't necessarily make it a relationship super easy. So I had to learn a lot of things the hard way. So I wasn't really ever very good at dating. I wasn't very good at being in relationships. I would say missing that gene, but that's not true. I Was missing the training. I, um, was in therapy a lot and became a therapist because I really liked the whole therapy process. I thought it really helped people. And I hired dating coaches and I probably, like a lot of your listeners, took seminars and online coaching and reading on the internet about how to do dating and went on the apps and, learned some things from that. But I think as the title of this podcast is about, we wanna overcome Tinder because we'd like to get off Tinder and into the best relationship of our life, which I'm happy to say I did.

Speaker 9 2:09

Yes. We love success stories. Tell us more.

Speaker 10 2:14

I love sharing it. I, started, on my 60th birthday, so I just wanna say it's never too late. It's never too late. A lot of people will tell you it's too late. All the good men are taken. I just wanna say this is absolutely untrue. There's a lot of great there people out there, men, women, and, gender fluid. Lot of terrific people. And so I decided on my 60th birthday, I am going to. Get this thing once and for all. I had two bad marriages. The first one wasn't bad, we're still friends, but it didn't work out. And the second one was not really very good at all. And I, decided I'm gonna get this once and for all. I, went on about six online dating sites. I started going to lots of meetups. I started doing anything I could think of. And this is, this is all documented in my dating book, which we'll talk about later. I just started doing anything I could to meet, in my case, meet men. And make all the mistakes I needed to make.

Speaker 9 3:15

I love it. Fail forward.

Speaker 10 3:17

Ended up dating 150 guys. Wow. And that's how long it took me. 'cause I was, as I said, backward and, the one important thing that I think made the difference for me is I, had lived in a tantra ASAM earlier in my life and 'cause I was really interested in Tantra and the way people met there. Everybody thinks that sounds like it was one big orgy, but it, that's not what it was at all. Act actually. The, people there, the single people there met by becoming friends first.

Speaker 9 3:47

Oh, I love it. That's so important.

Speaker 10 3:49

Here in the West, we think that the friend zone is a bad place to be. We're like, oh my God. They were put in the friend zone and in Tanja we're like, yay, we're getting somewhere. We're friends. Why would you wanna get intimate with someone you're not friends with? That sounds so cold and awful. And so this whole idea of becoming friends first is not a tender idea. Tender idea is what's first is hot. I had always made that, mistake also that chemistry is the most important thing. But as a therapist, I know that chemistry often means this is your worst nightmare. It reminds you of your parents. I'm sorry,

Speaker 9 4:30

I don't mean to laugh.

Speaker 10 4:32

Please laugh. It's really funny how misguided we're or I was. And, chemistry off it means this is unfinished business from your parents or your past or your last relationship. I started also realizing that, the day the, apps are making us less loving instead of more loving. So they teach us to be more and more judgmental. And I thought, I'm becoming even more judgment. I'm on a spiritual path. I'm trying to be less judgmental, right? But this dating process that we practice is making me more judgmental. You go on some date with someone and you're like, oh my God, they're wearing these horrible shoes. It could never date anybody with such horrible shoes. And they're like. WTF. That's a ridiculous criteria, but we're encouraged. It's oh, I can tell immediately that I could never love this person. It's that's not a very loving stance.

Speaker 9 5:21

Wow.

Speaker 10 5:21

So I thought, I wanna develop more love in myself, and if I can become a more loving person, I'm gonna attract love.

Speaker 9 5:29

Absolutely.

Speaker 10 5:31

If I keep developing myself as a judgmental person, as the apps are encouraging me to do. I'm gonna attract judgmental people back. So what we are is what we attract. So I could see that I was doing something wrong in my dating, which was, I was allowing the process to help me become more and more judgmental and I needed to cure that in myself.

Speaker 9 5:53

So did you boycott the apps?

Speaker 10 5:56

I stayed on them. So that I could use the, dates that I had off there. So I'd meet somebody for coffee from there. And I would see that they weren't in my judgmental category. And I would go on a coffee date with them and I would sit and I would work on myself while I was sitting with this person on what's wrong with me, that I can't extend human kindness to this person.

Speaker 9 6:19

Oh, interesting. I like that thought.

Speaker 10 6:21

What's wrong with me that I can't be loving towards this person? Not necessarily in love, not necessarily that I'm ever gonna see them again, but what's wrong with me? That I can't be loving towards this person because the dating process is telling me I should be judgmental towards this person. I wanna spiritually try to be loving towards this person. Heal myself from my judgmental ways. Am I explaining that in a way that makes sense?

Speaker 9 6:48

Yeah. That sounds like some deep shadow work. You're like, I'm diving in, I'm gonna heal these parts of me and lose this resistance

Speaker 10 6:55

Exactly. And by doing this, I attracted, my now husband, who's a very loving person. And, I probably wouldn't have dated him because he, at the time. Was a part-time smoker, but my judgmentalness was like, no smokers, I don't care. He doesn't smoke anymore. But at the time, I probably would've said, no, I don't think so. And I was able to, meet him, see if we had the quality of being friends first., I thought he was hot. He is a very nice looking man and so on, but it's like I, but at this point I was suspicious of that. I'm like, I'm not falling for any more guys, just 'cause they're good looking. I wanna make sure that this is someone I could be friends with.

Speaker 9 7:34

I love it. Because yeah, how many years are you gonna be spending with them? You wanna make sure that there's some commonality and a friendship to keep it going.

Speaker 10 7:43

So what I counsel people is look for someone who you wanna hang out on the couch with and watch movies with someone you wanna pat on the butt and Trader Joe's, just someone you feel utterly comfortable with. Because in re that's the person you're gonna have the best sex with anyway, not just someone you're a little intimidated with because they have perfect abs or something that's not gonna be sustainable. So what's gonna be sustainable is this my best friend and my best sexual friend.

Speaker 9 8:10

So how do you find both of those qualities in one person?

Speaker 10 8:13

The thing that you're most looking for Tinder or elsewhere is this a person that I feel that my body feels comfortable with just hanging out with. So you go on a coffee date and instead of noticing the caliber of their shoes, which I don't know, I can't help but doing, but I try not to judge from that place. I try to notice is my body comfortable sitting with this person? Do I, would I feel comfortable seeing them again? Not do they fit my perfect criteria of a perfect human being, but do I just feel comfortable hanging in the same space with them? And this is a, a first, what would you say? A first screening I think is do I feel comfortable? Because a lot of times what we're taught to feel attracted to some hot guy or some hot girl, we don't really feel comfortable with.

Speaker 9 8:56

We

Speaker 10 8:56

feel intimidated, like we're not cool enough or something that's not comfortable.

Speaker 9 9:01

So how do you differentiate between being nervous about going on the date and then just feeling oh, these are like red flags in my body?

Speaker 10 9:09

Yeah, I say if you're having red flags at all, you should honor them. Because often our body is telling us things. Our mind is going, yeah, but he is so cute and our body's going, get away from this person. Get away from that person. You don't need a reason, but if you're nervous, you can just notice. I'm nervous and, but do I feel comfortable? 'cause nervous is not actually a sign that this is a person you're gonna be feel friendly friends with.

Speaker 9 9:34

Oh, good point.

Speaker 10 9:36

Okay, so if you are super nervous around somebody that's probably not a person you feel comfortable enough to be friends with,

Speaker 9 9:43

mm,

Speaker 10 9:43

it's probably not your soulmate.

Speaker 9 9:47

Good point.

Speaker 10 9:47

Your soulmate is gonna feel like This is my best friend and I wanna make love with them also, secondarily.

Speaker 9 9:55

I like that.

Speaker 10 9:57

And my husband and I have been together for a number of years now. We're still completely sexually attracted to each other. People think older, like it goes away when you're older. It doesn't have to at all. But it's really this quality that we're best friends. That is what's sustaining to us. You may be aware of Dr. John Gottman, who is one of the big kahuna. Psychologist in the United States. He's written some popular books and he did some studies where he found that he asked successful couples what was the quality they found most, mostly made them have a successful relationship and 69% of women and men, that's two thirds said it was the friendship. I thought, men must say sex. No. 69% of men said it's the friendship. If these big psychologists are saying friendship is what makes relationships work. Tinder and all these apps have it wrong because what we're looking for is our BFF, not necessarily who's hot, and these Tinder, they apps, they give you these fashion models that come on first that aren't even real people. To go, oh, I'm looking for a guy like that. It's like, we're not looking for a guy like that. We're looking for someone who's our best friend. If we want a relationship to last. This sounds like most people still think, oh friends, were not gonna be sexually attracted. But I would just ask people to stretch a little bit and imagine this is my best friend that I can't keep my hands off.

Speaker 9 11:26

Yes. I love that. You also talk about tantra. So how does Tantra play into keeping that connection alive with your best friend?

Speaker 10 11:36

Tantra is mostly known by people as being extremely sex positive, often in weird ways. And if people are into weird ways, I don't have a judgment on that. Whatever they wanna do, that's not the kind of tantra that we're into. We're into the tantra being the idea that everything is sacred.

Speaker 9 11:53

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 10 11:54

Most of us grew up in a culture that's, religion. That said, some things are sacred and some things aren't. And sex is one of the things that isn't sacred. And Tantra came along and said, all manifestation is sacred, including sex. And you can imagine how the powers that be didn't like hearing that. So they said, tantra is evil, but I don't experience it as evil. Experience it as finding the sacred in everything. So that was a little bit, even when I was dating, I would take this tantric idea into dating of. This person I'm meeting for this date is perfect. I'm the one who can't see it.

Speaker 9 12:33

That's a paradigm shift right there. Like they're perfect. Why am I not seeing it? What me is blocking their perfection.

Speaker 10 12:40

Exactly. And they may not be perfect mate for me, but they are a perfect person. And so that's how I just got this idea of tantric dating, which is this person is perfect. I'm the one who can't see it. I'm gonna work on, fixing my perception here.

Speaker 9 12:55

So if you fixed your perception and you dated 150 guys How did you. Not choose the perfection and all 150 people.

Speaker 10 13:06

A lot of them didn't choose me. A lot of them I struggled and couldn't see their perfection and I didn't really, come up with this idea at the beginning of my dating. This is something that evolved throughout those 150 dates.

Speaker 9 13:17

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 10 13:17

So I would, struggle and maybe go out with someone that I felt friendly towards and didn't really feel the connection. And maybe we date for two or three times and then it became obvious. It didn't work out either of them or me. So dating is a process of maybe it would last for a month or two and then one of us would realize it wasn't working. So it's really a process of continuing to refine that sense of this other person is perfect as they are. That may not be my mate, but I wanna try to see that perfection in everybody. That's just a spiritual path. I chose for myself a tantric path.

Speaker 9 13:54

I love that. Now on your website you talk about, as a psychotherapist, you tell your clients, it's not my job to take you where you don't wanna go. Rather, it's my intention to take you where your higher self knows you to be. So could you tell us a little bit more about that thought?

Speaker 10 14:11

I think a lot of times, therapists, coaches, people who are trying to help, are trying to, they have a hammer and they wanna hit the nail and they wanna, have the person turn out a certain way. And, I think that's up to the person and I'm here as a consultant or as a, facilitator or as a, coach. Not the same as a coach, but a therapist type coach. And, I think the person knows inside themself who their own perfection. And we're just I don't know. There's that thing suddenly I thought of that thing and that we've heard of, was it Michelangelo or Leonardo, one of those great, sculptors who said they just chip away at what's not the sculpture?

Speaker 9 14:51

Yes. I think it is Michelangelo

Speaker 10 14:53

that the perfect person is there and maybe they got some, like my difficult family taught me some things that I was unlovable and I needed to kind of chip that away because it wasn't true. I think that we chip away at the things that aren't worth who the person is, but it's up to them to be who they wanna be.

Speaker 9 15:09

Yeah. So true. You mentioned that, you were divorced two times. So how did you go from that second divorce to getting ready to jumping on Tinder and start dating again? How did you prepare yourself?

Speaker 10 15:21

I was depressed for a while. I think that's normal. Then I had a, unsuccessful short term relationship with somebody that really depressed me even more. And then as I said, I turned 60 and it was like, wow, that big number

Speaker 9 15:37

mm-hmm.

Speaker 10 15:38

Shocked me so much that I was gonna be going into my, third part of my life without the partner I'd always dreamed of. I wanted to get serious 'cause my. Career was going well. I had, written a couple books by that point. My health was good, everything was good, except I didn't have this relationship. I decided this is my next project. So I let the pain of those relationships that didn't work out make me take action. And I think when you're dating later in life, you have to take a lot more action. At least I did. You can't, it's not really like college where there's just a lot of people around and you'll soon enough be selected by somebody that's not how it is for most people later in life. So I had to make a plan. I had to force myself to go out, even though I'm not a very outgoing person, I had to force myself to go on the apps, force myself to get out. I used to go to art gallery opens and things where other people were, and just forced myself to try to talk to people, and it turned out well.

Speaker 9 16:42

Great. So what advice do you have for people to really put themselves out there if they're shy or they're nervous? How did you get yourself to go to those events? Did you find a wing woman to go with you?

Speaker 10 16:53

Sometimes, but I actually did better on my own. I had hired a dating coach, so I had to do some accountability. I had a guy friend who was also dating, so we would call each other and give each other reports on how it went and egg each other on. When I would call him. So if it helps you to have a wing person to go out with, that's great. Mostly he would my wing, like we would, I'd call him and complain or be disappointed, and he'd say, just. Go on the apps and contact 10 men, and I'd be like, okay boss.

Speaker 9 17:23

I love

Speaker 10 17:23

it. You know when you contact 10, you maybe you're lucky if you get two responses, but that's just the numbers game and dating, which is that you just persist until you get what you want. It took me three and a half years of hard work.

Speaker 9 17:37

Wow. So are you a big fan of making that list of all the qualities that you want in that person, then putting it away, and then going on the dating apps and seeing if you have a friendship? Did you get your list of everything you wanted?

Speaker 10 17:51

I made that list and then I went back later and looked at it and I thought, this is ridiculous. Nobody could ever live up to this. And some of those things I didn't even want. They were just images that I had from social media. I think that number one, you're just looking for kindness. Someone who can demonstrate that they're a kind person. For example, my husband had been a single father to a disabled son.

Speaker 9 18:13

Wow.

Speaker 10 18:13

And I thought anyone who's gonna, who has done that in their life, is not gonna abandon me if I get sick or if I put on five pounds or, that's a good person. And he also was doing volunteer work once a month with, helping some younger men in the community. I thought this is a good person.

Speaker 9 18:30

Good leader

Speaker 10 18:31

and I had never been looking for kindness before. I'd been looking for hot, exciting, cool, whatever, not, I did not have the right criteria. So I think those really long lists are encourage us to be judgmental.

Speaker 9 18:44

So it's different. It's

Speaker 10 18:46

exclusionary.

Speaker 9 18:46

It'll be different for everyone. But what would you say are the top five things that you would suggest to your clients to look for?

Speaker 10 18:54

Kindness. Kindness, and kindness. One of my, therapists said you can ask for what you are. For example, if you're fit, you can ask for fit. If you're financially stable, you can ask for financially stable. So I think it's good to bring it back to yourself. Instead of saying, this person out there needs to be, that to be good enough for me to go, what do I need to do to be good enough for this person? Who's gonna be my partner? Am I kind? Am I fit? I often give people a list of here's the things I wanna work on in myself to be good enough for the partner that I'm looking for. Now, most women don't think that means they need to lose weight. It's not, that's not what it is. It's, or most men think that has to do with money. It has to do with such things as like kindness. Having a caring attitude toward the other people, being financially stable, not necessarily rich, but you don't have a mountain of credit card debt. And when you are all these things, then you can ask for that on a partner. I think we wanna bring it back to ourselves instead of here's this mythical thing. Like my list would've said, no smoking, and I wouldn't have met my partner.

Speaker 9 20:01

So did he stop smoking on his own or did you hint around?

Speaker 10 20:05

I told him once, if I'm fine, if you decide to quit smoking, I'm also fine if you don't because it's really none of my business. He didn't smoke in the house. It's really, if you think about it, it's really not your business what someone else wants to do.

Speaker 9 20:21

And so any advice, if you find someone, and let's say you have kids. They have kids, to bring the Brady Bunch together.

Speaker 10 20:30

Sorry, I don't have any idea.

Speaker 9 20:33

Okay. All right.

Speaker 10 20:35

I haven't had to do that one. That's beyond my pay grade. I don't know.

Speaker 9 20:38

Oh, okay. I just didn't know if you had advice for that. Looking back, was there a single decision or action that made the biggest difference in you finding your soulmate?

Speaker 10 20:48

I think it was decision to go for it no matter what. I had to learn about myself. So I had to realize I'm only a half kind person. I'm only a half loving person. I had a cat and I had friends and I gave money to charity and I thought I was fine, but I really was only a half loving person and that's why I attracted half loving men. And when I really told myself the truth about that and started, dating in this way that I'm describing where I'm gonna. See if I can be as loving towards this person as I can, no matter what they look like or what kind of crappy old shoes they're wearing. I'm using this. I hope this makes people laugh because

Speaker 9 21:27

yeah,

Speaker 10 21:27

no matter, what, then I'm gonna try to be as loving towards them as I can and get rid of this judging people for such, superficial things. The more I healed that in myself, the better quality men showed up, and then I got a really loving person.

Speaker 9 21:41

That's fantastic. So how many of your clients have had success shifting their mindset instead of looking for that hot guy to finding their friend, their best friend. And how long has that taken them, would you say, on average?,

Speaker 10 21:55

I get emails from people, I get people in, dating classes I've taught that have found their true love. They said, I wouldn't have chosen this guy before, but I can see he's perfect. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this guy, it's just that he wasn't fantasy material. He is just a normal person. I get, people saying all the time, your book changed my life, my book, my dating book. It's not for everybody. It's for people who aren't a spiritual path and are willing to say, I might be the problem here. It's not my, five pounds. It's something in my character that I have allowed. Social media lead me astray and I wanna fix that in myself and go back to my original values of loving everybody.

Speaker 9 22:41

And how has your life changed for the ve Because you find the good in everyone and you're willing to see beyond their imperfections.

Speaker 10 22:50

It's still a journey because I still make snap judgements, but I'm working on it all the time. It's my spiritual path. Being with my husband, of course, has totally changed my life, living in love. And, so I would recommend it for everyone to stick with it until you find the one. And, it's worth the journey. It's worth what you have to learn about yourself, which is painful. But if you don't fix it, it won't get fixed.

Speaker 9 23:15

So once someone finds their soulmate like you found yours, what advice do you have to maintain that spark and to maintain that relationship so that you can stay with them forever?

Speaker 10 23:28

I wrote a couple books on that as well, so if anyone's interested in my series, the main thing we do is we, every day we, check in and if there's anything we're still upset about, I wasn't sure what you meant by that remark this morning. In my previous relationships, I would've fretted about that all day and maybe gotten grumpy and, I don't know, just leads the relationship off in a bad direction. My husband said to me early on, I wanna discuss everything, and I'm like, what? He said, I wanna talk about everything.

Speaker 9 23:59

That's great.

Speaker 10 24:00

Just in his previous relationship, they hadn't talked about stuff. You sweep it under the carpet and it never gets talked about. Then it blows up. And he said, I just wanna talk about everything. So we just talk about everything. As soon as there's, any kind of upset and we clear it. So we call this tantric relating. We just really, don't let things pile up. And, that works for us. Sometimes it'll be something like, wow, I'm still upset about this thing that happened a year and a half ago. I don't feel completely done with it. Is it okay if I bring it up? Yes. Then we'll talk it through and then we won't have that upset anymore. So it's just being willing to talk about the upsets instead of pretending they didn't happen.

Speaker 9 24:41

And so then once you're done with the topic, do you guys agree that you'll never bring it up again?

Speaker 10 24:46

No. We say you can bring it up anytime you want if you're not done.

Speaker 9 24:51

That's good. If

Speaker 10 24:52

you're still unhappy about something, if you didn't feel that we came to a resolution in that conversation, you have permission to bring it up again until you feel complete.

Speaker 9 25:01

That's great. And so how do you know that when you find your friend, that they healed all their baggage?

Speaker 10 25:09

They never have. So you know that when you're gonna be in a partnership with someone, that part of your agreement is we're gonna be healing our baggage together. And I'm not gonna be shocked and horrified by yours. I'm gonna try not to be, and you're gonna try to not be shocked and horrified by mine, and we're gonna grow together. That's part of the agreement in a conscious relationship is where neither of us are. Perfect. See, this is the other fantasy of Tinder and so forth, is that you're gonna suddenly just meet this perfect person. And even though in your mind you think, oh, nobody's perfect, there's still this expectation that this person is gonna come to you perfectly healed. And I don't think this exists. If it does, they're way beyond. And we should just know that when we're dating it's okay for you to not be perfect. Just like my husband, he smoked at the time. It's okay. I'm not gonna worry about these small things that aren't really my business. He goes and smokes outside. How is that my business? It's not really my business. So really focus on, is this a good person? Are they treating me kindly? Are they, if they. Said something unkind. Is that, were they just in a crabby mood or was it real? Just really parsing these things out.

Speaker 9 26:21

And so how did you attract a conscious partner? Was that because you were conscious and you were so fixated on, healing the parts of you that were resisting everyone? Is that what brought in a conscious partner for you? Or what advice do you have to someone who wants a conscious partner?

Speaker 10 26:38

Yes. I think that is it because we attract who we are, and I also think you have to go to places that conscious people go. Whatever that means to you, you're, if you're conscious, where do you go? Where are like-minded people like you going? So that could be a car show, that could be a workshop, that could be whatever. You have to think through where a person, who's a conscious person would go.

Speaker 9 27:05

Okay. Alright, so if someone listening is going through a similar situation right now and they've been trying to date on Tinder or some of the other various apps, what advice would you give them?

Speaker 10 27:17

You can still use Tinder and the various apps it, but I think it has to do with a, using it as an opportunity in your personal and spiritual growth to look for the right thing. Because if you really look deeply. You're really, probably looking for someone who's kind and has the, capability of staying in a relationship with you long term. People who are looking for short term sexual affairs, that's fine. I've been in places looking for that in my life. But when you're looking for your soulmate and your partner, you shift in what you're looking for. You're not looking for the person who is. Hot and burns out quickly. You're looking for someone who's maybe been married a long time. My husband was a widower. Which means he was, capable of, lasting in a relationship. And then how do they demonstrate that they're a kind person? Who are they, what are they doing not for money? Are they, volunteering anywhere? Are they contributing money anywhere? Are they taking care of their mom, parents? Something like this that proves that they have the capacity to do caring actions in the world, and then they will care for you.

Speaker 9 28:29

Wow, that's so important.

Speaker 10 28:30

That they're not looking for the wrong thing.

Speaker 9 28:31

Absolutely. So looking back, what is one thing you learned about yourself having gone through this whole experience of dating 150 guys and then finding your soulmate

Speaker 10 28:40

Sounds so bad, but

Speaker 9 28:41

no, I love it.

Speaker 10 28:42

I really, admired my own tenacity. It's I'm gonna stick to this to the end. And many times I was gonna give up. But, the prospect for me of going into my last third of my life alone, I had girlfriends and I know people who do it that way, but I just thought, I'm gonna feel like a failure at the end of my life if I don't find this relationship. And my friends thought I was a, they told me after I found him, you were obsessed. We thought you were weird. It's yes, I was,

Speaker 9 29:06

but I got him.

Speaker 10 29:07

And you're not supposed to be obsessed in the later in life after midlife. You're not supposed to be obs boy crazy. It's like, that's what I wanted.

Speaker 9 29:14

Why not?

Speaker 10 29:15

People will judge you and maybe talk poorly about you, and it's like you just persist if that's what you want. And it's gonna take a lot more effort than you think. I think hopefully it won't for you, but it did for me.

Speaker 9 29:26

Okay, so tell us about your book and, tantric Dating.

Speaker 10 29:29

I wrote this book, tantric Dating. I was doing some tantric dating workshops in Los Angeles, and I just thought this was the throwaway book to go along with the workshop. And then a girlfriend of mine called me from Seattle and she said, do you know your book has been named one of the top dating books of all time? I said, what?

Speaker 9 29:45

Whoa, I love it.

Speaker 10 29:46

So yeah, it was on a list of the top a hundred dating books of all time. It was in the top third. I was like, whoa, I can't believe this. And then it started being a bestseller on Amazon in the little, sacred sexuality category. I'm like, I can't believe this. I thought, people like to buy content now in series. Like we all like to watch series on Netflix or Harry Potter or whatever. So I'm gonna do a little series of little short tantra books and the second one is tantric mating, and the third one is tantric relating where I was talking about the principles like. Talking everything out. And now I have four books in that series. I'm working on the fifth and there's gonna be six total. So they're all very inexpensive. You can find 'em on Amazon and maybe they'll be hopeful for you.

Speaker 9 30:27

Awesome. We'll definitely link 'em down below in the show notes. Other than your books, is there a book that helped you in your journey that you could recommend to our listeners?

Speaker 10 30:35

I think the OSHA book on Tantra really explains this whole idea that it's about loving everything. Everything is worthy of love. Everything's sacred, and that really is very deep for me in trying to approach the world as all people are perfect, all love is perfect, and I wanna just wanna be able to see that more and more experience that and embody it more and more.

Speaker 9 30:58

I love it. So this has been such an inspiring conversation and really eye-opening to this other world of dating. So thank you Catherine, uh, for sharing your journey with us. So where can people connect with you, follow your work, and I'll link the book down below.

Speaker 10 31:14

My website is katherine alman.com and I'm in all the usual places. I'd love if you connect with me at, on Facebook, Instagram, I have a lot of free YouTube cha videos on my channel, it'd be great to stay in touch.

Speaker 9 31:28

Awesome. If you found this episode helpful, please share it with someone who might be facing a similar challenge and needs to hear this message of hope and dating advice. I'll see you next time on overcoming Anything.